Que pensez vous du dernier Buck Danny "Sabotage au Texa

Forum sur les aventures de Buck Danny et de ses coéquipiers J. Tumbler et S. Tuckson
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Robert
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Caniff, Charlier/Hubinon, Bergese etc.

Message par Robert »

L'Amiral a écrit :Salut Robert,

I had the chance to speak twice with Hugo Pratt, the Italian comic author (and quite a poet) who created Corto Maltese and many other great characters.
He begun to appreciate the comic art throught the stripes on the newspapers for the G.I. in Europe just after the war and Milton Caniff had the greatest impact with him, Dino Battaglia and a his generation. They were even able, as a group, to create a magazine (L'Asso di Picche) and a strip "Junglemen" which owed very Much at that American author.
It would seems that for Charlier and Hubinon it was quite the same.
The 1945-1946 period, so, is confirmed as a shock for the European BD.
We could even say that Buck Danny is the best and still more in line product of that U corner of the strips on the old continent.

Does this BD need to change so much like now? Or was Sabotage in texas simply a stone on the road and not a milestone on the path to glory of Col. B. Danny?

About our beloved Lady X why not an album with an history all for her? Rex Stout did the same with a novel (and a sound one) all dedicated to Inspector Cramer, the rival of Nero Wolfe, in Scarlet wires.


Bye EC
Salut l?Amiral.. et tous,

C'est très pénible parler en 2 langues en même temps? ce soir en englais :

For the last time our beloved Lady-X: I prefer the blond femme-fatale from the beginning, but appearing in 17 albums (from 51), I mean, that?s too much. I liked her first appearances, but earlier than album 40 ?Ghost Qeen?, she should have been disappeared forever and making place for other femme-fatales and/or other bandits. She is still a secundairy person, she could be replaced (please Bergese, ASAP, save Buck Danny).
Strange scenario: Buck Danny and Co. solving any problem, but eleminating for good Lady X ( I prefer: Lady die) is a bridge too far?

Very interesting, having spoken with Hugo Pratt ; he was also influenced bij Noel Sikles and Milton Caniff. Especially the shadow-art. Corto Maltese was rather popular in Holland in the 70?s an 80?s.
I expect ?Sabotage in Texas ? was a simply stone on the road, because I now read hopefull info?s at this forum regarding ?Mystery at Antarqtica?.
Bergese wanted perhaps a new genaration of readers with that plot , but that was counter-productive.
?Sabotage in Texas? resulted in bad commercial results, at least in Holland, and did a bad job for the B. Danny series in general.

I think after WW.-2 the American BD gave a positive impulse to the European BD-market. Before W.W.-2 and short after, the European BD-market was a rather dull/ysleepy place. And especially meant for the kids, now BD is also for the older readers.

Regarding the Buck Danny scenario in this new age:
I think, it?s a scenario still based on the 40?s and 50?s allthough the aeroplanes have chanched, but the stories??; I prefer a little update, a pilot-strip more in the direction of Steve Canyon (Wow?Canifff was ahead off his time) with modern planes, a little bit of romance (no soap, like ?Jessica Blandy?), and DIFFERENT femme-fatales and/or bandits. You get better scenario?s, with intriges also. A lot could happen or go wrong. Summary: (in my opinion) you get so a more realistic and interesting pilot-strip, a Buck Danny upgrade.
Do?nt you think, that in album 4 to 6 nothing happened between nurse Susan Holmes and her big, around 22 years of age, protectors like Tao, Buck and Sonny? They lived very close together in very difficult situations, Caniff would turn in his grave about this scenario. The story is OK, but missing some passion/romance between the people involved, very unrealistic.
What?s your opinion l'Amiral (Walker) :?: :wink:

For the moment I stop now; ?Fire Fox? has a question at another topic, so I have to change language also..(In the old days I was a licenced radio-amateur, so I have some experience in switching languages)

To be contined
/ à suivre :!:

Amicalement,

Robert

WW-2 flight-jackets at:
http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastman ... 9604-1.stm
Dernière modification par Robert le lundi 25 avril 2005, 20:47, modifié 4 fois.
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Robert
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Scenarios, Dutch BD situation

Message par Robert »

Hi again l?Amiral,

?Fire-Fox?was interested in the Dutch BD situation, especially regarding aviation. Perhaps you are also interested also. So, here a translation/update.

BD <=> Holland in 2005
There are no special BD aviation sites in The Netherlands. The group interested in aviation BD/comics is very small, perhaps some bigger than ?Michel Vaillant?. I think SF-comics are very popular. ( http://www.donlawrence.co.uk/te/home/ , http://www.comiclupe.de/CAT/S00006.html ).
You may find some Dutch BD sites like Don Lawrence ( famous cartoonnist from ?Storm?, ?Trigan?), Luky Luke, Tintin, Tex (Willer), Asterix & Ob.
But the BD world in Holland is collapsing; because of the rapid change in interests (PC-games, DVD etc.), economic development and rather high prices for BD since 2005 ( 6,50 ? ). Also a growing lot of people are selling their BD collections.
In local (book-) shops it?s very hard to find a diversity in BD/comics; you have to visit big cities and may find 1 to 3 special comic shops. They have a rather big diversity in BD or may order BD. But the number of publishers is also dropping dramaticly.
The big BD years in Holland were the mid-70s and mid 80s. People interested in BD are getting smaller and older. In these special comic shops, you may find a lot of 30 years-plus folks, the grey-hairs.
As far as I see, Don Lawrence from BD like Trigon and Storm (SF-art) and Tintin by Hergé may see die-hards.
The Dutch comic history, also in English, you can read at http://www.lambiek.net/
http://www.lambiek.net/dutchcomics/index.htm, http://www.lambiek.net/home.htm

Regarding scenarios BD:
if you have read the latest Mr. Blueberry album "Dust", it?s scenario is also very weak. this time I think, there are enough cartoonist, but finding good script/scenario-writers seems to be very difficult?.

A personnal note.
Perhaps a bad habbit, but I think BD/comics is a textual and VISUAL matter, so sometimes I add an image in my forum text, if necessairy regarding the topic. As you may see now at some of my forum text.
What do you think about that :?:
And, I do'nt like "tunnel- vieuw", I see BD and/or BD aviation as a whole (like this forum); every topic/item BD is to argue about :idea:
See also topic "Vie du forum".

Regards,
Robert
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L'Amiral
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Message par L'Amiral »

Salut les gars,
any good BD seems to have a brilliant youth, a sound life and a sunset boulevard end. I'm thinking, as an example, at the Marvel's Fantastic Four. After the golden Stan Lee and Jack Kirby time (1961-1970) pure adventure and fantasy was reduced in favour of interior problems more and more sophisticated. Someone may love the old Swedish Bergman almost silent movies of the grotesque by Kafka or, again, pure violence, but all togheter...
My beloved Colonel Clifton too suffered such a nightmare during his last adventures.

Buck Danny, as I had the chance to write on the Rivista Marittima (The Italian Navy monthly since 1868) some years ago, is the best of the naval (and not only air) comics and was so able to live (not survive) for quite a longer time than, for example, Don Winslow USN. Sic durat gloria mundi.

He maybe needs a refit, all right, but not by the a.m. standards. We want action now, according the real world and crisis, and planes (not forgetting carriers, please, I'm a sailor), not psycological problems.

Robert idea of new enemies is a sound one. Ther's plenty.

Salut

EC
Ciàpla adàsi, stà léger
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Robert
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Sabotage au Texas, Lady X

Message par Robert »

L'Amiral a écrit :Salut les gars,
any good BD seems to have a brilliant youth, a sound life and a sunset boulevard end. I'm thinking, as an example, at the Marvel's Fantastic Four. After the golden Stan Lee and Jack Kirby time (1961-1970) pure adventure and fantasy was reduced in favour of interior problems more and more sophisticated. Someone may love the old Swedish Bergman almost silent movies of the grotesque by Kafka or, again, pure violence, but all togheter...
My beloved Colonel Clifton too suffered such a nightmare during his last adventures.

Buck Danny, as I had the chance to write on the Rivista Marittima (The Italian Navy monthly since 1868) some years ago, is the best of the naval (and not only air) comics and was so able to live (not survive) for quite a longer time than, for example, Don Winslow USN. Sic durat gloria mundi.

He maybe needs a refit, all right, but not by the a.m. standards. We want action now, according the real world and crisis, and planes (not forgetting carriers, please, I'm a sailor), not psycological problems.

Robert idea of new enemies is a sound one. Ther's plenty.

Salut

EC
Bonjour (ou bonsoir) les gars et L'Amiral

l'Amiral,
you forget something: "Sabotage at Texas" has also something positive: NO Lady X, la femme-immortal.
See also my reaction at the topic "Mystère en Antarctique" with a horror-scenario (to me): the change in the series-name : The Adventures of Buck Danny" in "Buck Danny against Lady X', because Lady X appeares in almost every D. Danny album, recent years.

It now seems "Robert contre Lady X", hi :wink:

Salut tous de Robert
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juliet-fox
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Message par juliet-fox »

Hi, Robert !

L'Amiral said :
Robert idea of new enemies is a sound one. Ther's plenty.

And you said :

Bonjour (ou bonsoir) les gars et L'Amiral
l'Amiral,
you forget something: "Sabotage at Texas" has also something positive: NO Lady X, la femme-immortal.
See also my reaction at the topic "Mystère en Antarctique" with a horror-scenario (to me): the change in the series-name : The Adventures of Buck Danny" in "Buck Danny against Lady X', because Lady X appeares in almost every D. Danny album, recent years.

It now seems "Robert contre Lady X", hi


A force d'insister, tu as fini par me convaincre totalement. La série Buck Danny s'enrichirait avec de nouveaux méchants, et avec l'apparition dans les prochains épisodes de nouvelles femmes fatales, en remplacement de Lady X (Sinon, il faudra payer un tueur professionnel pour éliminer "femme immortal" !)
En effet, dans les "Adventures of Col. Steve Canyon", il y a un renouvellement des femmes jouant un rôle dans la série, qu'elles soient du côté de Steve Canyon ou dans le camp des méchants.

Il me semble qu'il y a un épisode de Steve Canyon intitulé "Lady X".

Peux-tu me confirmer que les avions (magnifiques) qu'on voit voler dans le ciel derrière Col. Steve Canyon sont bien des Convair (F 102 ou F106 Delta Dart) ?!
Cet avion, n'ayant jamais équipé l'US Navy, reste l'un des grands absents de la série Buck Danny (idem pour le F 111). Les F 106 furent pourtant des intercepteurs très performants en service dans l'USAF.

Regards
JF
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L'Amiral
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Message par L'Amiral »

Hello,

what about a scenario where the path seems to led to Lady X (again) but the real is she is not guilty (or, even better, absent in the history, except for the baloons of the text) this time and the guilty is someone else?

It would be a good exercise of exorcism of our beloved villain (when will she recover her previous phisical look?) and a confirmation of a new trend rich of ideas.

Bye EC
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Robert
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B. Danny: Scénario et personnages

Message par Robert »

juliet-fox a écrit :Hi, Robert !

L'Amiral said :
Robert idea of new enemies is a sound one. Ther's plenty.

And you said :

Bonjour (ou bonsoir) les gars et L'Amiral
l'Amiral,
you forget something: "Sabotage at Texas" has also something positive: NO Lady X, la femme-immortal.
See also my reaction at the topic "Mystère en Antarctique" with a horror-scenario (to me): the change in the series-name : The Adventures of Buck Danny" in "Buck Danny against Lady X', because Lady X appeares in almost every D. Danny album, recent years.

It now seems "Robert contre Lady X", hi


A force d'insister, tu as fini par me convaincre totalement. La série Buck Danny s'enrichirait avec de nouveaux méchants, et avec l'apparition dans les prochains épisodes de nouvelles femmes fatales, en remplacement de Lady X (Sinon, il faudra payer un tueur professionnel pour éliminer "femme immortal" !)
En effet, dans les "Adventures of Col. Steve Canyon", il y a un renouvellement des femmes jouant un rôle dans la série, qu'elles soient du côté de Steve Canyon ou dans le camp des méchants.

Il me semble qu'il y a un épisode de Steve Canyon intitulé "Lady X".

Peux-tu me confirmer que les avions (magnifiques) qu'on voit voler dans le ciel derrière Col. Steve Canyon sont bien des Convair (F 102 ou F106 Delta Dart) ?!
Cet avion, n'ayant jamais équipé l'US Navy, reste l'un des grands absents de la série Buck Danny (idem pour le F 111). Les F 106 furent pourtant des intercepteurs très performants en service dans l'USAF.

Regards
JF

Bonsoir J.-F.,

# Scénario Buck Danny
Je ne suis pas Charlier-2, mais je crois, avec beaucoup de nouveaux méchants et personnes et personnages (avec charactèrs varié, mortal et/ou immortal) on a beaucoup de scénarios, résulté en d'avontures varié, comme col. Steve Canyon. Une grande impulsion pour la bonne série Buck Danny. Buck Danny avec nouveaux amis en l'USAF; on voit voles les avions de l'USAF aussi, par example.
Vu tome 3-6, "Alerte en Malaisie" et "Top Secret", trés bon scénarios, c 'est possible. Au moment Lady X n'est pas un mystère... Je veut dire: Mystère en Antartique: la grande rentrée de Susan Holmes..., quelle surprise...

F-111: Buck Danny tome 34 "Alerte Atomique"?

# Col. Steve Canyon, col. Buck Danny
~ col. Buck Danny: l'US Navy
~ col. Steve Canyon: l'USAF.

Les avions qu'on voit voler dans le ciel derrière Col. Steve Canyon sont les F106 Delta Dart de l'USAF.
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Robert
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Lady X => Lady die

Message par Robert »

L'Amiral a écrit :Hello,

what about a scenario where the path seems to led to Lady X (again) but the real is she is not guilty (or, even better, absent in the history, except for the baloons of the text) this time and the guilty is someone else?

It would be a good exercise of exorcism of our beloved villain (when will she recover her previous phisical look?) and a confirmation of a new trend rich of ideas.

Bye EC
Hi folks,

GREAT!

Bye, bye,
Robert
Dernière modification par Robert le mercredi 20 avril 2005, 14:33, modifié 1 fois.
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Robert
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Buck Danny in Italy

Message par Robert »

L'Amiral a écrit :Salut les gars,
.

Buck Danny, as I had the chance to write on the Rivista Marittima (The Italian Navy monthly since 1868) some years ago, is the best of the naval (and not only air) comics and was so able to live (not survive) for quite a longer time than, for example, Don Winslow USN. Sic durat gloria mundi.

He maybe needs a refit, all right, but not by the a.m. standards. We want action now, according the real world and crisis, and planes (not forgetting carriers, please, I'm a sailor), not psycological problems.

Robert idea of new enemies is a sound one. Ther's plenty.

Salut

EC
Hi again l'Amiral,

1 question: are ALL 50 Buck Danny albums released in Italie? On Ebay-worldwide I saw some cover-scans of Italian Buck Danny's, but I got the impression, that the chronology is not correct and numbers are not complete...
For instance, the Germans speak of 44 B. Danny albums. The first 6 albums are not counted there. They were released by another publisher, later, called "kult"-issues, in limited editions.
Very high prices in Germany also. In the beginning the Germans called Buck Danny "Rex Danny"... Bad print and bad covers also, with a lot of text. And Rex is usually a name of a dog.....

I saw also only 1 American Buck Danny release at http://www.milehighcomics.com: the first Bergèse issue (Mission Apocalypse).

Here in Holland, we follow the releases of http://www.dupuis.com, so we have the same album-release as France and Belgium.


Pour l'Amiral http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/ ... Borbon.jpg

Salut
Dernière modification par Robert le lundi 27 janvier 2014, 1:36, modifié 4 fois.
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Antoine
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Re: Buck Danny in Italy

Message par Antoine »

Robert a écrit :I saw also only 1 American Buck Danny release
FYI / Pour info:
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juliet-fox
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Message par juliet-fox »

F-111: Buck Danny tome 34 "Alerte Atomique"?

Les avions qu'on voit voler dans le ciel derrière Col. Steve Canyon sont les F106 Delta Dart de l'USAF.

Hi again, Robert

Je n'ai pas le livre sous la main, mais il me semble qu'il n'y a pas de F111 dans Alerte Atomique ni dans aucun Buck Danny de Hubinon.
Il y a par contre des Vigilante, bombardiers de l'US Navy embarqués sur l'Enterprise. (avion piloté autrefois par Buck à l'état de prototype (voir "Prototype FX 13" et sa suite).

"Alerte atomique" est pour moi un des meilleurs Buck Danny. Excellent scénario, dramatique (sans Lady X) et dessins impeccables d'Hubinon.
La suite est malheureusement médiocre au niveau du dessin, Hubinon étant tombé malade et remplacé par un dessinateur ne possédant pas le talent requis pour une bande dessinée de cette qualité.

Sauf erreur de ma part, les Convair F106 Delta Dart qu'on aperçoit derrière Colonel Steve Canyon ne figurent hélas dans aucune aventure de Buck Danny. C'est dommage, car ce fut un avion remarquable. A la fin des années 50, c'était le meilleur intercepteur US.

Mais Buck Danny a fait de trop courts passages dans l'USAF pour avoir pu tester toutes les machines. Les auteurs de la série, nous leur en savons gré, ont toutefois permis à Buck et à ses équipiers de piloter un grand nombre d'avions. (beaucoup plus que Tanguy et Laverdure : Fouga magister, Lookheed T33, Dassault SMB2, Mirage III (C et E) ; Et Mirage 2000. (Il existe une histoire pour la jeunesse, illustrée par Jijé, où Tanguy est pilote d'essai du Mirage G8). Hélas, le Mirage F1 est le grand absent de la série Tanguy et Laverdure.
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firefox
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Message par firefox »

?Fire-Fox?was interested in the Dutch BD situation, especially regarding aviation. Perhaps you are also interested also.


hello Robert,
welcome to Aeroplanete.

do you know martin leeuwis and his publications (say...) ?

i'm sorry, but i can't stay for a long time, because i have to get ready
to go on hollidays to the West Indies. :D :D :D

so...i'll answer you when back.

best regards
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Robert
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martin leeuwis

Message par Robert »

firefox a écrit :?Fire-Fox?was interested in the Dutch BD situation, especially regarding aviation. Perhaps you are also interested also.


hello Robert,
welcome to Aeroplanete.

do you know martin leeuwis and his publications (say...) ?

i'm sorry, but i can't stay for a long time, because i have to get ready
to go on hollidays to the West Indies. :D :D :D

so...i'll answer you when back.

best regards
Thanks!

martin leeuwis: No, never heard of him....But I searched www.google.com, and found this:

http://www.aviation-humor.com/cms/view.php?id=115
Dernière modification par Robert le mardi 26 avril 2005, 10:08, modifié 4 fois.
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Robert
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Sabotage au Texas, "politics"

Message par Robert »

Sony Tuckson a écrit :I don't do politics.... :wink:
D'accord, mais "Sabotage au Texas" est la premier histoire de B. Danny avec "politics": conflit CIA, FBI, le gouvernement, etc. L'histoire/scènario plausible, mais....
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Robert
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Buck Danny 2005, Lady X/Doe Redwood

Message par Robert »

L'Amiral a écrit :Hello Robert,

my interest in this debate (not in the forum, of course) is the cultural development of the scenarios.
We both agree things changed from Hubinon to Bergese. Perhaps a pure good against evil theme, like in the previous Buck Danny episodes until n. 40, is no more possible (but it seems, judging by the answers in this forum, the public would appreciate it like before; it would be interesting to discover the age of the people who answered in this way. Personnaly I was born in 1960).

About the Lady X quite often presence I think it's a little boring in the long run. What about a forced alliance of the two aces against a common menace, maybe a Chinese one? Of course our beloved Lady (Oh how I miss the original blonde version, the actual one seems, at best, a manager of a dept. store) would have something really important to perform such an enterprise without betraying her provisional ally.
What could be so important for her? Her life and only that, of course, as anything else would be dropped at sea (except, of course, a child. Cindy would be an ideal candidate. The Lady looked for her in Bosnia and spared her life in Peru. Or she is getting old or ther's something behind it).

Your opinion Pal?

EC
Hi l'Amiral, or should it be "le Philosophe" :?: :idea:

what's the problem with the old B. Danny scenario's and the recent scenario's, say the Bergèse era?
The old Buck Danny albums give a rather good picture/impression about THAT time. The recent B. Danny stories should also be that way. I think they do. What's wrong about that :?:
Perhaps it is a bit strange: a European comic about an American pilote (and pilotes).
Buck Danny is an American pilote, so he gas to follow the American (political) developpements; only in album ?Sabotage in Texas?. Buck is critical. I prefere that, Buck is becoming a more real person/human; a bit in the direction of Lt. Blueberry, a comic-personnage I prefer. He is not perfect.
If the Buck Danny stories were also accepteted by the American readers; perhaps we had a better picture. But only ?Mission Apocalipsys? (album 41) had been released in USA (see also www.milehighcomics.com , search "Buck Danny".)

After Hubinon died, I have the impression, that with Bergèse, Charlier made from B. Danny somewhat more a European comic, regarding the topics. The topics are perhaps less acceptable for the American markets. On the other hand, there are more planes in the comics, and less interesting stories. Allthough, reviews of album 51 (?Antarqtica?) are hopefull.
After WW-2 the influence of the Americans was bigger than recent years. At that that the Europeans were gratefull to the (American) liberators. You may find that also in the early B. Danny stories/albums. Nowadays the Europeans are finding there own way of live and you may find that in the B.Danny-scenario?s also.

And.... "Lady X" (Jane Hamilton) :roll:
Charlier is, since he tookover from George Troisfontaines, following the stories and personnages of the Milton Caniff comic personnages very, very closely. (source: Terry & the Pirates, major and later colonel Steve Canyon from the USAF.)
What happens in Caniff?s comics, some year(s) later, almost the same happenes in the Buck Danny stories. This regards also personnages.

Take Lady X, modelled after Hanna Reitsch.... forget it :wink: Charlier created a Lady X, a female pilote/aviatrix, after in Milt Caniff?s Steve Canyon comics appeared a Doe Redwood, a female pilote/aviatrix.
That was in 1949/1950. The first female pilote in a comic. Caniff modelled Doe Redwood after the first real, existing and dominant female pilote: Jackie Cochran from the WASP. Doe Redwoods' (the woman-pilote) first apperance in the S. Canyon comics was at the end of 1949, in Korea. Lady X' appearance in B. Danny was in 1955...
Perhaps, with Hanna Reitsch history, Charlier made in 1954/1955 a mixture, a pirate flying woman, as Doe Redwood was allways friendly. That happened also with other personnages.
See also (in Italian language): http://www.comics.it/modules.php?name=C ... age&pid=22
Cindy is now the real predecessor of Caniff?s Doe Redwood, also friendly.
I have read all the 50 Buck Danny albums, the comments of JMC in ?Tout B. Danny? etc., and as I am reading now Terry & the Pirates and S. Canyon more and more, I am finding more and more parallels between these comic-series, only Milt Caniff was earlier with his scenario?s/personnages.... :wink:

Image<= aviatrix Jackie Cochran (and Chuck Yeager)

Best wishes,
Robert
Dernière modification par Robert le dimanche 01 mai 2005, 11:30, modifié 8 fois.
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